Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Ask A Surveyor › Discovering mining portals, tunnels, winzes surrounding Lot 6, USGS 2764, requesting mineral survey abbreviation decipher.
Ask A Surveyor
Posted by ChancySoul on March 2, 2022 at 3:03 am
I own Lot 6, USGS 2764 on the edge of Cordova, Alaska. Lot 6 changed shape and now rests next to the “Papoose Fraction”. Papoose is State owned & ‘reserved for public use & enjoyment” (nice waterfall to camp next to). Papoose is only 0.27 acres now, though Lot 6/Papoose used to be included in USMS 1061. I have discovered five portals and a collapsed tunnel within a thousand feet of Lot 6. (And an old carbide lamp)
The attached image from a 1917 survey of the Papoose Fraction shows an arrow pointing to lettering (distance/coordinates?) in the middle of my current real estate— shows the abbreviation ‘DISC. PT. No. 1’.
If anyone could confirm that ‘DISC. PT. No. 1’ as it appears on the attached image correlates to “Point of Discovery” I would appreciate it. Also & specifically, if & how that abbreviation relates to the arrow & lettering (distance/coordinates). The Mineral Survey includes 104 pages— mostly field notes with details of mine sites, owners, length & direction of tunnels, value in 1917 currency Etc. It uses abbreviations with no key, and much of the information on the survey has a look of having been photocopied with loss of data/clarity. On the upper right hand of the image, on another claim, an abbreviation ‘DISC. POINT No. 1’ is shown with coordinates. Other maps of nearby claims show the exact abbreviation, or “Disc.” with lower case letters as shown, as if each claim relied upon a discovery point. Maps also show “Disc. Tunnel No. 1” on nearby claims.
“Point of Discovery” is defined as ?? “In mining, the precisely indicated position at which a valuable mineral is exposed to view. In the absence of proof to the contrary, the discovery point is held to be the center of the vein on the surface”
On Lot 6, there are 70′ tall hemlock & spruce trees, overburden, then hardpan so dense it makes a pick bounce. Two mounds of apparently undisturbed hardpan up to 20′ deep in places have been exposed by yours truly, showing everything from layers of gravel, clay, sand & ash to boulders twice the size of your truck— oh, and volcanic rocks that have a variety of attributes. Plenty of pyrite in hand-crushable ‘rocks’ are found in layers of softer dirt, that if previously disturbed would have been disintegrated. We live in copper country, and I believe WWII ended all prospecting/mining in the area. The abbreviated DISC. PT. No.1 has an arrow pointing to the middle of my property & to the lettering. In that exact spot on my property, there is a wide swath where the hardpan had been removed, but with the hundred years of growth, I am slow at accessing bedrock. People were made tougher in those days. Old locals say “thar be gold”, and “there ain’t no gold”. I have been keeping watch for gemstones, too. Found a nice geode. The hardpan likely has a hodgepodge of elements, the bedrock likely has copper ore.
Lot 6 rests along the “Cordova Fault”, a healed fault line that is plainly visible to those looking for it.
Thanks much for reading, and to any who respond. Trying to decipher the information on the map—
Chancy Soul
Lot 6, USGS 2764
Cordova, Alaska
ChancySoul replied 2 years, 4 months ago 4 Members·15 Replies
15 Replies
loyal
Member
March 4, 2022 at 8:02 pm
I have been watching this post for a couple of days now, and I’m a little surprised that nobody has commented yet, so I’ll (maybe) start the ball rolling. My experience in Alaska is VERY limited, and also a long time ago, so bear with me. Hopefully some of the Alaska Folks will chime in and clarify or correct my ramblings.
1. You need to post the Master Title Plat (MTP) of the area, along with the Historical Index (HI)
2. We need to see the US Patent(s) relating to Mineral Survey No.1061 and any other US Patents relating to Lot 6 and US Survey No.2764 (if 2764 was ever patented).
3. “United States Surveys” (No.2764 in this case) are a different critter than most of us are used to. I have seen a couple of them on Prince of Wales Island (MANY years ago), and to be honest, I don’t remember much about them or the authority governing them.
4. Lot 6 sounds like a GLO/BLM designation of a irregular (probably remainder or fraction) parcel of land not previously conveyed by official patent, and identified (in the office) so that the GLO/BLM could either manage it, or convey it out of the Public Domain under whatever authority they deemed appropriate. The (apparent) fact that you own it, would indicate there is a formal US Patent that should answer some of your questions.
5. There may or may not (probably not) be a specific SURVEY of Lot 6 per se, in most cases in the Mountain West, the Boundaries (and controlling Corners) of these “designated Lots” were established by the previous Mineral and or other approved Federal Surveys (in this case probably Mineral Survey No.1061 and US Survey No.2764)
6. I have seen a many US Patents (or “lists”) that simply list a bunch of “Lots” by number and Section, and sorting out the location, extent, and boundaries thereof can be a real PITA. There is one down in the Park City area of Utah (Lot 27) that was patented in the 1980 as I recall, that consists of a triangle 1.0 x 1.0 x 0.2 feet (0.1 sq. ft.), the three corners of which (wood posts set in 1899) are in the same mound of stones. Yeehaw! Others that contain several (or even dozens of) acres with multiple “sides” controlled by dozens of Corners, NONE of which are actually Corners of the Lot.
Sorting these kinds of things out can be relatively easy with the right documents, but even in the best case scenarios, it takes TIME and therefore it can be expensive.
That became a somewhat rambling mess, I’ll put on my flak vest and check back in when I get back from the Geezer Club meeting tonight. ????
Loyal
loyal
Member
March 4, 2022 at 8:12 pm
I should also have mentioned that there are almost certainly other GLO/BLM Plats relating to this situation, these would be Supplemental Plats both MTP and those generated by the Cadastral department. These are probably Section specific (at least that’s what I see in the Western US), and are much smaller scale than the “standard” MTP Township Plats.
ChancySoul
Member
March 4, 2022 at 9:16 pm
I appreciate the feedback. Now to navigate BLM to get more maps. Please let me know if the attached maps ARE the maps you suggested, or if there might be more.
You sure know how to get the ball rolling. Not afraid to open a few more cans of worms, but I will do more study before asking anything else here—
After I posted, it occurred to me that the question I asked may have been redundant. I believe the arrow points to coordinates. I believe the point of discovery is low grade copper ore in the exposed bedrock of a creek running through Lot 6.
I attached this plat from 2006 which gives line lengths— greatly assisting me in my tape-measure surveying efforts. I had been measuring along the slope, not realizing surveyors measure on a horizontal plane— I gained real estate. I figure after your geezer meeting you might enjoy a distraction, so I included the 104-page mineral survey and 13-page survey of USS-2764.
Best wishes
Chancy Soul
Lot 6, USGS 2764
gene-kooper
Member
March 4, 2022 at 10:17 pm
@loyal Since you asked for plats (and field notes) here are the plats and field notes for MS1061 and U.S. Survey No. 2764 (not USGS 2764 as indicated in the OP). I found it odd that only the amended plat for MS1061 and not its field notes were included in the PDF file I downloaded from the Alaska GLO website.
Here is the general website for Alaska’s SDMS system.
Alaska Spatial Data Management System
Among the data available on the AK SDMS are:
Scanned images of BLM Alaska land conveyance documents including: Patents, Tentative Agreements and Interim Conveyances issued since 1965.
Scanned images of BLM Alaska MTPs. These maps portray the Bureau’s record of current federal land ownership and land status.
Scanned images of Cadastral land survey plats and field notes.
ChancySoul
Member
March 4, 2022 at 10:29 pm
I had posted these as well but they did not show up in time while awaiting moderation. I appreciate the efforts and am searching for anything else connected to USS 2764— got to learn to drop the ‘USGS’ or figure out where i picked it up.
old newspaper has clearer text about MS1061
Googled “Tacoma-Cordova Mines Company” found some of our old local papers— reading now
The Cordova daily times. (Cordova, Alaska). 1921-03-10 [p 6]. (loc.gov)
gene-kooper
Member
March 4, 2022 at 10:32 pm
As for the questions in the OP, a quick look through the field notes for MS1061, esp. the “Expenditure of $500” section (begins on page 42 of the PDF) will answer those questions. In other words, the abbreviated descriptions on the plat are linked to the mining improvements described in the field notes.
As for definitions of mining related terms, I suggest looking at the “Glossary of Mining Terms” (pages 61 & 62) in “Mineral Survey Procedures Guide,” by John V. Meldrum, 1980.
ChancySoul
Member
March 4, 2022 at 10:59 pm
Much appreciation— I missed what you had caught. Will reread that section of 1061, and then look into the Mineral Survey Procedure Guide
loyal
Member
March 5, 2022 at 2:48 am
Thanks Gene.
As I stated above, I’m no expert on US Surveys as they exist in Alaska. I was always of the understanding that “they” were unique to Alaska, although that might not be the case. Obviously Lot 6 is an intrinsic part of US Survey No.2764, which actually doesn’t surprise me as much as it should. Although there are a bunch of “oddball” Federal surveys that I encounter from time to time, I continue to believe that experience with the differences from State to State is what makes this profession interesting. I learned something new today, so it’s a good day.
Loyal
gene-kooper
Member
March 6, 2022 at 1:02 am
@loyal My only exposure to U.S. Surveys is from the CFedS continuing education course, “Non-Rectangular Surveys.” It contains three modules on U.S. Surveys, which are described as metes-and-bounds surveys of non-mineral lands.
loyal
Member
March 7, 2022 at 7:28 pm
I was hoping that some of the Alaskan surveyors would chime in and give us some details and background on these US Surveys. Ever since encountering them ~35 years ago, I have always been curious. I’ve never encountered anything quite like them in the lower 48, although there are some “non-standard” surveys that pop up from time to time (like “GLO Townsite Surveys”).
Williwaw
Member
March 7, 2022 at 8:10 pm
@loyal Alaska being a fairly new state had at the time few areas surveyed under the rectangular system so the US Survey was one of the few tools available to get land out of federal ownership and into private hands for patent. Later when those lands were surveyed under the rectangular system, the USS would be retraced and excluded. Usually they originally were only tied to a single USLM and if they haven??t already been retraced for exclusion, they can be a real bear to get back on without using ties to improvements like a tie to a cabin that was present at the time of the original survey. Sometimes the lat/longs are miles off. One item of interest is they typically conveyed mineral rights, which after statehood, would be reserved to the state. So long and short any survey of federal lands not conforming to the rectangular system was done via the USS, ie the Alaska RR corridor.
Willy
loyal
Member
March 7, 2022 at 8:31 pm
Side note:
I visited Cordova BRIEFLY back in about 1994 when the flight I was on from Anchorage to Yakutat stopped over there to drop off a couple of passengers and freight. My girlfriend and I got off the plane and had a smoke, and that was the extent of my time in Cordova.
I love Alaska, especially Southeast Alaska, and have made several trips up there. Unfortunately (in my opinion) the cruise ships had ruined some of the small towns along the inside passage.
gene-kooper
Member
March 7, 2022 at 8:48 pm
@loyal The first Congressional Act regarding townsite surveys in Alaska is “An act to repeal the timber-culture laws, and for other purposes.” March 3, 1891. See Secs. 11 through 15; pages 1099-1101. That act also includes new provisions for desert land entries, ROWs for ditch and canal companies, statute of limitations on governmental challenges to previously issued land patents, creation of forest reserves, repeal of pre-emption laws, etc.
ChancySoul
Member
March 8, 2022 at 7:47 pm
@williwaw
Somewhere in the growing stack of plats and documents, I read that rail was permitted to be run to Lot 6.
Whether a private landowner is permitted to keep the gold nugget they stub their toe on, or if they are required by law to throw it into the ocean, is a matter for a gold-paid lawyer to provide an opinion on.
That said, I prefer to establish and maintain all rights included in the possession of Lot 6, including (the right) to run rail to the property.
I see geological oddities bordering and on Lot 6— varied types of upturned rock layers not common to Cordova.
I’ve spent a good deal of time analyzing this 1.53 acres, and give kudos to the surveyor that chose the lines. The lay of the land, creeks, bedrock, obstacles, azimuth of the sun and so many other attributes are well represented by their efforts.
Perhaps it was all happenstance, but I see great care being taken when walking those lines. If such care was taken in choosing lot-lines, I imagine the decision to permit rail was just as thought-out.
One of these days I’ll stub my toe on something and add a few pictures. Perhaps a copper nugget, though I’d settle for a dinosaur skull, too.
Chancy Soul
Sunshine in Cordova these past few days. Feels like summer.
ChancySoul
Member
March 8, 2022 at 7:55 pm
@loyal
And here we’re adding miles of road to a deep water port at Shepard’s Point after adding a $30M Community Center and a $30M Science Campus (a few feet above the highest tide:)).
Locals are already designing signs “Welcome to Cordova—
Hamburgers, $24.99—
Rental car, sometimes—
Rain, indomitable—
Umbrellas, ineffective—“
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